Talk: Lio Convoy

A Different Sort Of Name Change

First, I'm putting this at the top so it doesn't get lost in the roiling sea of old arguing... anyway. While trying to look up Beast Wars II episode info, I stumbled onto a video upload site where someone put up the old Ctenosaur subs. Re-watching the first episode brought a certain piece of trivia screaming to the forefront: before Lio Convoy went to Gaia, he was not called Lio Convoy; he was called Convoy.

You can watch here.

I have no idea what this means. Certainly he wasn't the same character as Convoy/Optimus Primal... maybe it ties in with that recent Takara timeline idea that BW II and Neo took place further into the future? --Monzo 11:07, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I didn't watch it because I'm lazy, but could it possibly be that he was merely being called Convoy as a nickname here? I'm not familiar with the dialogue convention in BWII/Neo...US G1 tended to shorten the name to "Prime" while BW onwards seems to favour "Optimus." I dunno what they do in Japan, though--is LioConvoy (or even Big Convoy) ever referred to as simply "Convoy" in shorthand conversation? Onslaught Six 05:24, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Also, don't forget that in Convoy is used as a rank, so calling him Convoy could be like calling him "Sarge." - Semysane 09:01, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually,his name before getting reformatted WAS Convoy. He makes a point of pointing out the change to Megastorm in the second episode. Theres no real explanation to it, he was just Convoy before coming to Earth, and he's the only character to change his name btw, although Kid might have added the Tasmania. Maybe he gave up his original name when he was made a Convoy, maybe that's how it works, and some later on decide to add something to the title like Big or Lio. User:GWolfv2

Well, we can only learn that he is originally called "Convoy", maybe name or rank from the fiction. As for Big Convoy, "Big" is his original name in the manga version. --TX55^TALK 13:21, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Personality

Did Leo Prime have any actual personality in the Japanese stuff to record as his profile? As of right now it's mostly kinda a recounting of BW2 continuity specific story material rather than a true character profile. We should definately have a real profile whenever the IDW BW Guide comes out (soooon peeaaasse) but I was wondering if there was anything we could say about him personality wise as of now? What little I remember is pretty much "generic leader." ZacWilliam 02:00, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

He's a Japanese leader. That means he has zero personality. Honestly, he was dull as dishwater in BWII. --DrSpengler 03:12, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I dunno, doesn't Leiconvoy party hard? Is eem to recall an episodew where he frank a lot of beer. -Derik 04:25, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Wow, franking beer *is* pretty unique behavior. (I don't usually point out spelling, but I just find this one really funny.) It wouldn't surprise me too much if he was a partier, Japan seems to like the idea of TFs getting drunk. Although I would think that'd be more Big Convoys thing, off hand. ZacWilliam 12:30, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Name Change

We should probably use a different image for Lio's main one. Namely, one of his first toy-body in normal colors. --M Sipher 20:33, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

• Yeah, I never really intended to use that as the main one, just as a place-holder since Google wasn't finding me anything better. --DrSpengler 20:34, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Can we move this to Leo Prime now? Please? Singularity 14:46, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh, Lord yes! --ItsWalky 15:14, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Have we seen the back of his card to be sure Leo Prime is definately the same character? I mean clearly the deco is inspired by him, I'm just wondering if we've seen the bio. (Even if we havn't, it probably WILL be him, I know, but we wont be 100% sure till we see.)

It's probably in the history now and I can't change it, but there was an angry and non-researched well rant here by me a while ago. I've changed my mind a little. Blog entry explains all.

We can't check your blog if we don't know who you are. Please, register a username and sign your posts with four tildes - and welcome to Teletraan I. - RolonBolon 07:06, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

It's Onslaught Six. I have an account here and I know about the tildes. I just don't feel like logging in and stuff.

Well, if you don't care enough to do that, why should we care about what you have to say? - RolonBolon 21:10, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Name Change: Part Deux

Question: Now that we know that the Classic "Legends" figures have no character/bio info on the cards (we DO know that right, I'm not imagining it?) don't we have to question if "Leo Prime" is actually the same characters as "Lio Convoy"? I mean, *YES* his deco is definately a homage, but LOTS of Universe toys feature homage-decos and the *exact* same names as existing G1 characters, and we've consistantly and purposely refused to treat them as being new versions of the existing robots here, because there's no official proof/bio/characterization one way or the other. Leo Prime's case is pretty much exactly the same thing isn't it (or possibly even weaker, since in those cases even the names matched perfectly)? Certianly a homage, but with nothing official to confirm it, there's no way to really say he's the same guy from BW2. Not officially. Am I missing something? ZacWilliam 12:16, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

• I agree. The decision to change the name seemed premature to me. What is the basis for saying they are one in the same? --Crockalley 14:11, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

• They do have bios, albeit short ones. Leo Prime's has "Cybertronian Supreme Commander" in it somewhere. Also, Classics isn't comparable to Universe because it is stated to be a continuation of G1 and doesn't involve multiple universe-hopping. We don't have Megatron (Classics) or Trypticon (Classics) pages. Interrobang 14:57, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

What Int said. Though it will all come down to what they call him in IDW's BW profile book, I imagine. --ItsWalky 15:05, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Spinning offa this, is there now more solid precedent for renaming Overlord as Gigatron? HOC is at least as valid as LOC, if anything it's actually more detailed. I understand some people are reluctant due to Dreamwave giving their character of Gigatron a completely different backstory than the fictional Overlord ever could have had--however, no material was ever canonically published that linked Overlord to Gigatron. Just interviews with Patyk/McDonaugh about where they'd like to take the character. It strikes me as no more consequential than 'The Greater Ape'. So why not rename?

The European (thus, UK) release is named "Overlord". Interrobang 03:10, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I think we're waiting on Overlord until we get maybe another universe for him...? there's enough of a case to say ovelord = Gigatron IMO, but they're treated so differently...-Derik 03:46, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Again, though, there are TONS of instances of characters who are portrayed wildly different in different continuities. Take Marvel Grimlock vs. Cartoon Grimlock. Or Shockwave. Or Blaster. Hell, in Dreamwave's continuity, Scourge and Cyclonus are completely different robots rather than being reformatted from the seekers or the Insecticons. Should they get different pages, too? It's quite clear that Overlord and Gigatron are meant to be the same character, even if they were portrayed differently in different continuities. The same holds true for Leo Prime and Lio Convoy - Dark T Zeratul 08:00, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey, you're preaching to the converted here.. I think part of the problem is- what do you call him? he got an einglish-language release as overlord. if he was renamed Gigatron... we dont usually 'respect' renames on the Wiki. (Silverstreak, et al.) Except- in Dreamwave continuity is HIS Gigatron.. but BY FAR he's best RECOGNIZED as Overlord. And, you know, actually saw release under that name. It's a pickle. -Derik 08:22, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

His American release was Gigatron. Isn't that pretty much the standard we're using? - Dark T Zeratul 08:52, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

• shrug* I will not oppose moving the article to Gigatron. -Derik 09:14, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

In my opinion, if we were to consider J-Overlord and Gigatron the same character, then the same would apply to Lightfoot and Getaway, or Road King and Slapdash, etc. They're humans in robot suits, which their Western counterparts are not. Gigatron is the Hosehead to Overlord's Cab. Quite frankly, I advcoate making Gigatron as separate character article, just as the other Powermasters have separate articles from THEIR Godmaster counterparts, similar tech specs be damned. But, yeah, I'm probably in the minority on that. The problem, I suppose, comes with figuring out where Eurolord goes. - Chris McFeely 10:57, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

No, I'm down with that. I figure Masterforce Overlord should have his own separate article since he's a very distinctly separate... organism, then Eurolord/Gigatron a separate article. As for which name he'd go under, I vote Gigatron, since that's how we've got all the other Euro transplants from G2. (And is similar techs were all that, Charger would be Slag, and BM Mirage Skywarp.) --M Sipher 19:49, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

At this time and on little sleep, I would guess that Powermaster Gigatron and Eurolord fall under the same category as, say, G2 Laser Rod Jolt and G2 Illuminator Hotrod - essentially the same character with some details changed to suit the market. Saying that, I realize that Gigatron and Overlord have entirely different bios, but comparing [1] them [2], I don't see anything that contradicts the other with the exception of Overlord having Energon mini figures and Gigatron being a Powermaster. On the other hand, maybe that's fanfic'ing it too much... man, does anyone have Andrew Frankel's address? I'm pretty sure he WROTE Gigatron's card bio and could just say what he intended the character to be. --Monzo 12:11, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I still don't understand why the Lio Convoy articles had to be changed to Leo Prime considering her's far better known as Lio Convoy, and has been a japanese character for far longer than a US character. --FFN 19:55, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Because we go by English names for characters whenever they have them. --Andrusi 20:08, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

This is the English Transformers enyclopedia. Go to Japan's if you want Japanese names. Interrobang 02:59, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I should note that ironically I am in an argument with somebody on TFW2005 who insists on using japanese names, and I am arguing Hasbro's case. I just think that in this case, the predominantly japanese character should use the japanese name, since that's what everybody who has heard of or is familiar with the character knows him as. If, IF this was the case of a joint line like the UT where Hasbro concurrently released the toy with a US name, then I might agree, but they didn't, and only just gave it a name on a repaint of a small impulse-buy toy last year. Also, the idea to change Overlord to Gigatron just because of some long-forgotten LOC is foolishness and would have just made things confusing. --FFN 03:09, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Your Gigatron comment would've probably been more relevant months ago. Interrobang 07:27, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I hadn't joined then. But this still irks me. --FFN 08:47, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Uh guys, are we forgetting this toy was sold by Hasbro Collectors as Lioconvoy (or LioConvoy).[3]

Evan1975 06:01, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Name Change: Part the Third

It looks like IDW is going to be calling him Lio Convoy. How will this effect what we call the character here? --KilMichaelMcC 07:19, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

If true, I'd prefer to change it back to Lio Convoy, since now his only official US characterisation has given him the original japanese name (it seems). Plus he's been a japanese character way longer. --FFN 11:25, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree that if he IS Lio Convoy vs. Leo Prime when the actual IDW issues come out then yes it should be changed back, since then both would be US names and and Lio would have more story/history weight. It's wait and see at this point though, when the issues come we'll know. --ZacWilliam 11:42, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Derik agrees with Zac- mostly because Leo Prime has cleared Hasbro legal... and we'd look exceptionally stupid if the issue came out and he was called Leo Prime, it's possible some copy editor just screwed up writing the promos. -Derik 18:33, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Name Change IV: Japan is stupid

There is no reason for it to remain Leo Prime when we've been told it's otherwise. If they change their mind when it comes to the Ascending, then it can be changed back. The character's official name in the fiction he appeared was Lio Convoy. Nothing past that matters. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 159.134.162.193 (talk • contribs).

If you're referring to Furman's blog, that isn't a source of officiality (for lack of a better term) over the name on a toy's package, no matter how much you scream otherwise and call us anti-Japanese. Interrobang 11:37, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

But the toy is not officially confirmed as being Lio Convoy. He is an autobot, not a maximal, for a start. The name of the character in the fiction he appears in, and the toys that were released, is Lio Convoy. Not to mention the Hasbro Collectors Lio Convoy, which was released in the west, as Lio Convoy. You(the Wiki people) ARE anti-japanese, as fuck, you're practically infamous for it, since other people acknowledge the original name of the character. Furman's comment only adds to it.

There is no reason for it to remain Leo Prime. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 159.134.162.193 (talk • contribs).

We're "anti-japanese" in the manner that this the fucking ENGLISH WIKI. We deal with English names when possible. If "Supreme Commander" Leo Prime is not Lio Convoy, when who the fuck is he? Who is LoC Trypticon? Bumblebee? Jetfire? Fireflight? Menasor? "Maximal, not Autobot durr durr" is a retard's argument. Is Universe Optimus Primal a different character than Beast Wars Optimus Primal? Beast Wars Ravage from G1 Ravage? Original Blackarachnia from Transmetal 2 Blackarachnia from Universe Blackarachnia? Never mind that he's technically a Cybertron to begin with (which you're unsurprisingly silent on). Interrobang 11:52, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Too bad Lio Convoy is a JAPANESE FUCKING CHARACTER. What you're doing is bastardising Japanese Transformers to better fit your culture. You're like the 4kids of Transfandom. And yes, Beast Wars did continue Cybertron and Destron. I don't see the issue here. He could also be called a Maximal as the J Beast wars used the Maximal/Pred symbols, so we know for certain what the english(and probably better for disambiguation) equivalent is. Maximals were also a western invention. Lio Convoy was a Japanese invention, and has never been called Lio Prime in any offical fiction.

But either way, because we know that the equivalent of a Cybertron in the Beast Era in Japan over here is a "maximal", we know the toy "should" be labeled a maximal. Cybertron Version 2. As it is, it's labeled Autobot, Cybertron Version 1, with the Autobot symbol. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.120.116.179 (talk • contribs).

New IP-guy here, Because we all know that Universe Ratchet is the same guy as G1 Ratchet, and that Universe Defensor is the same guy as G1 Defensor. If we considered all the guys with the same paint job, and function to be the same characters, regardless of fiction, and even continuity of Origin, this Wiki would be fucked. And we still have no confirmation on the other LOC Classics, as far as the fiction is concerned they don't exist. And yes this is an English wiki, but it doesn't have to be an American one. As for your "Cybertron" Argument, the name is irrelevant, he still has a Maximal Symbol.

Universe fiction bases itself on the multiverse. Classics... does not. (Unless you'd like to argue that one-shot cameos in The War Within aren't the characters they obviously are, because we have no confirmation that they are.) Hasbro has stated that the LoC guys are the same characters. Why would they not be? What the Hell does America have to do with anything? If you are so desperately want this to be at LioConvoy, why are you not up in arms about him being referred to as a Maximal, when he never was? Why are you gnashing your teeth at one instance of "anti-Japanese bias", but not to another? Interrobang 14:29, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

First of all, there's always been toy-only characters sense the dawn of Transformers, and in relation to the fiction, they simply don't exist in most cases! There's no Twintwist and Topspin running around in the G1 Cartoon always in the background, and likewise there's no Leo Prime running around in the Classics comic! He's a non entity, all we know about him is that he's a Supreme Commander of something, and also an Autobot, that's all! The fact that he's a homage to another character in another continuity is irrelevant. I'm so adement against Leo Prime because Lio Convoy was first, used more, and although both are really shitty names, Japan has an excuse, they don't speak the damn language their naming guys with! Also there's the fact that the entire club he belongs to has guys named Convoy, it's inconsistent! 85.195.123.26 17:40, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

The only reason they don't "exist" is because you don't accept toys as valid for... some reason. Of course it's going to be inconsistent when we don't have English names for Big Convoy and some Nobodies. Optimus Primal is inconsistent with the naming scheme, and the world has yet to end. Interrobang 19:31, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Anti-Japanese or not, I'd vote on using the name LioConvoy because it's the name that's actually been used within the fiction, whereas the Leo Prime name has thus far only shown up on a lone Classics repaint with no bio or backstory to speak of. Plus, LioConvoy was released in North America in the late 90s, I believe alongside Shadow Panther. Sure it was, if I recall, a mail-away, but it was still a North American release. I'd say the first release should win it over the later one (much like how Jazz didn't become Meister when his Alternator toy came out). I haven't read through the entire talk page so if those arguments were already presented and voted against, well... feel free to ignore what I just said. (although I personally think the name Leo Prime sounds stupid. Makes me think of a Snapper repaint with a blue bandanna) Detour 12:34, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

This is how you work with others, anonymous Netherlands guy. Instead of unilaterally changing stuff around and accusing us as being a cabal of bias, you present your case in the talk page. Detour, I don't see why the Classics toy should be irrelevant; it has a bio, albeit a short one, that calls Leo Prime a "Supreme Commander". I don't think the online store thing overrides that, since it just sold the Japanese toy (which is called LioConvoy). It's basically importing. (LioConvoy is a dumber name.) If the character is called Lio Convoy in the Beast Wars comic (in the comic pages themselves, not a blog or solicitation), feel free to move it back. I'll urrgh at Furman maintaining a stupid name, but won't object. Interrobang 12:48, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Interrobang, that doesn't make it wrong to point out that you, and several others, are complete twats. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.120.116.179 (talk • contribs).

Most likely, if Furman is calling him LioConvoy casually, that is also the name that will appear in the actual comic. Once we have confirmation of that, the page will move back to LioConvoy with Leo Prime listed as an alternate name. 159.134.162.193, you really need to learn how to talk to other people without being a huge turd. I don't think anybody was actually objecting to the change -- once the name is official, I imagine we would all vote to move -- they were objecting to your completely counterproductive methods and reverting on principle. --Steve-o 20:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

People need to learn to edit this Wiki without being huge turds. The same Walky-isms(anti-Jap bias, anti-fan bias) are shitted all over this place. Once people start taking this ridiculous anti-fanboy phenomenon seriously, then I'll treat people with a little more respect. Every time I try to edit an article to balance the poking fun so it's at both sides(fans and Hasbro, or fans and anti-fans, I don't touch the original content, just add to it), it gets almost immediately reverted. As long as this continues, I see no reason to respect people who do not respect attempts at showing both sides of the coin. Dutch Anon may be more to your liking than Irish Anon, but it doesn't mean that either way is any more right. You only like him better because he's not challenging you and pointing out your flaws. That doesn't make his way more right. What you're doing on this wiki is very, very wrong. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.120.116.179 (talk • contribs).

Actually, I just realised that it was a registered member you were complimenting while flipping off Dutch Anon. What the hell? I can understand how you might think I'm a bit of a dick, but what has Dutch Anon done that's in the slightest bit aggressive? This just proves to me that some of you really can't deal with being challenged, at all(I already know David Willis can't). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.120.116.179 (talk • contribs).

Are you addressing me? You seem to be replying to my post, but I haven't complimented anybody here. And I don't think I said the previous anon editor was "agressive". I said he was being a turd. Perhaps that has an aggressive connotation in Ireland, but it doesn't in the US -- it just means I think he was an annoying jerk. I apologize if that wasn't clear. We can deal quite well with being challenged, but there hasn't really been a challenge here. When the Leo Prime toy was released, it was pretty clearly meant as a US-version of LioConvoy, thus making Leo Prime LioConvoy's US name. That is (probably) going to be overwritten with the new comic, and as such we will move the page back. All the people objecting have said is "you guys all hate Japan" and "his real name is LioConvoy", neither of which are actual arguments. One is false, and the other is subjective. I think Derik's Stepper/Riccochet example, below, is apt. Additionally, I think you will get a lot further if you think of this wiki as being edited by a large number of people who each have their own individual opinions, instead of as some weird conglomerate proxy for Walky. Just because you've heard of him and not the other editors doesn't mean he is responsible for the content here, and personally I get really irritated when people attribute things to him which other people wrote (like the old version of the fandom article, which was almost entirely my work). Also, please sign your posts, even if you insist on posting anonymously. It is very difficult to follow a discussion if the posts aren't signed. --Steve-o 00:54, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Why are you talking about yourself in the third person, Dutch Anon? You know that WHOIS exists and allows us to know that all of the IPs that have posted in this section is the same guy, yes?

I like how you call what we're "doing" on this wiki "very, very wrong". You take the name of one page on the Internet distressingly serious. Interrobang 03:58, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

In all fairness, it could be someone else with his same ISP. In the netherlands. ...who also passionately feels that this character shoudl be called Lio Convoy.

*snrk* -Derik 04:02, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

If you guys hate the topic title so much why don't you just click on the move button? --Oboro maru 20:28, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Because some anti-Japheads keep reverting it and pathetically think they have some kind of moral high-ground for being incorrect, as long as that instance of being incorrect is according to some bizarre set of rules. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.120.116.179 (talk • contribs).

• Stop IP-jumping already. If you would just register and sign your posts you could be editing the actual article right now instead of snarling ineffectually on the Talk page. --Thylacine 2000 02:35, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Not really, isn't making drastic changes and moving articles frowned upon? Doesn't there need to be a consciouses reached in the Talk Page first? 85.195.119.14 05:24, 15 August 2007 (UTC) aka Not-Dutch-IP-Guy

Because, as said above, the official name wont be established until the first issue of the new BW mini is out. Once that happens it'll be moved if needed. Got it? :) ZacWilliam 01:57, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

But there's no basis for him to be called Leo Prime to begin with. Why can't it be moved now? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.120.116.179 (talk • contribs).

Hasbro should have just called it Leo/Lio Primal, then it would have worked for BW's naming conventions, worked with the theme of Lio Convoy's original name and sort of makes sense in english. Yeah, I know they wanted to cash in on kids buying things with 'Prime' on them. --FFN 15:55, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Lio Convoy is a fine name as it means they can introduce the Convoy council from Japanese Beast Wars. Optimus Primal took his name as a homage, maybe he'll originally have been something Convoy as well. Sometimes names have a ring to them all on their own. I'm GLAD they're using Lio Convoy because of the sheer lack of respect directed at the Japanese material, even that their own flagship character gets bastardised by a bunch of yanks. We know Takara are no better than Hasbro. We get it now. That doesn't mean you go pissing on everything Takara-not-Hasbro is involved with just to make a point.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.120.116.179 (talk • contribs) 23:31, 14 August 2007.

Nobody's pissing on anything. It's more that the term "Convoy" has no real meaning outside Japanese continuity, thus introducing it to American continuity just muddies the waters with no real payoff beyond fellating fans of the Japanese continuity. As for "their own flagship character getting bastardized by a bunch of Yanks" you're aware that Optimus Prime in general bears no relation to the "character" of Diaclone Battle Convoy? Most of the characters we've come to know did not exist prior to Marvel's treatment during the development of the Transformers brand. --Rosicrucian 23:41, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

The Diaclone "characters" weren't even characters at all but piloted mechs. They were turned into something different, something decent, with some care to it. It's not the same thing as purposely setting out to strip elements of another culture from their product. It's laughable to compare creative process to doing something that's probably at least, in part, to piss off Takara fanboys.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.120.116.179 (talk • contribs) 23:47, 14 August 2007.

Okay, then I'm really not sure what you're referring to here. So I'm going to fall back on my original point of "Calling things Convoy in US continuity makes no goddamned sense." In Japan, they call them Convoys. In America, they're Primes. We don't have to mimic what amounts to bad translation birthing an Engrish term. As I said, it just muddies the waters and makes the terminology even less logical. Given that this is a character with US fiction continuity which will be added to further this very month, it doesn't matter particularly what they call him in Japan other than as a note of "Japanese Name: Lio Convoy" as with other characters who have different Japanese names.

Unless of course Furman surprises us and introduces the term "Convoy" to his Beast Wars continuity in The Ascending and the profile books. At that point, we're stuck with it. It'll be dumb, but it'll be official and I will take my lumps accordingly.--Rosicrucian 00:05, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Lio Convoy [...] means they can introduce the Convoy council from Japanese Beast Wars

Er... what? ...they're the Maximal Council of Elders, aren't they? Are you actually suggesting they're a separate body? The Universe comics even gave the elders robes patterned after the Convoy Council. -Derik 00:13, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, the 'Convoy council' makes no sense in english, though. Why would there be a seperate council when the BW continuity already has the Maximal council? Anon person needs to look at this through a US continuity perspective, rather than a japanese one.

I'm GLAD they're using Lio Convoy because of the sheer lack of respect directed at the Japanese material, even that their own flagship character gets bastardised by a bunch of yanks.

I think his appearance in the US continuity does him far more favours than his appearance in the japanese cartoons. --FFN 06:36, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

This naming thing isn't part of an anti-Japan bias. (Though I admit the wiki has one.) It's about trying to figure out what the damn character's name is in English continuity. A lot of Japanese characters have different names in English vs. Japanese. This one's a bit odd since the English name is being declared/confirmed 9 or 10 years after-the-fact... but Ricochet got an English name 17 years after he got a Japanese one. It happens. -Derik 00:13, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, and all that mess with Nightstick has caused a major continuity headache on that point that somebody needs to clear up. Apparently, every single Targetmaster that came with Cyclonus, Scourge, Stepper and Artfire was named Nightstick at some point. Yeah. And I'd also like to note that, in spite of my desire to have this article moved, Dutch Anon is not me. And on another point, RicoStepper is a slightly different case because he's not exactly the leader of the Cybertron forces during BWII. Onslaught Six 05:33, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I say he is. -Derik 08:27, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd just like to note how much I loved this... (American elitist bullshit. The character has never been officially named in any western TF fiction, and has never even appeared bar a short cameo in the Gathering.) ...being immediately followed by this... (The character has been officially named Lio Convoy in western fiction. There is no logical reason to keep it at Leo Prime, other than to appease the Wiigii's anti-Jap leanings.) The only thing more adorable than watching someone get into a lather about a lie about toys on the internet is watching them not even manage to be consistent about it. You are a beautiful and unique snowflake. Chip 13:14, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm greatly amused that the person screaming and foaming about mean nasty people with "bias" is casually flinging the derogatory racial epithet "Jap" around. I'm impressed. --M Sipher 20:06, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Teletraan-1: Nipping the Nips since 2006. -hx 20:42, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

ZOMG I FIGURED IT OUT! This person is Superman and he wants us to "Slap a Jap!" (Remember the old 'Superman is a Dick thread at the Allspark some years back? Think about it... and then move on.) --FFN 00:39, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Name Change 5: The Furman Strikes Back

No, Leo Prime. You are the Lio Convoy.

No, your arguments still aren't correct, Dutch Anon. Interrobang 05:36, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Compelling argument. While I'd normally consider a preview page enough to justify a move... I suggest that since we agreed to wait for Ascending, let's wait until the issue is actually published before making the move.

Partially in case there's any last minute copy changes... but mostly just to piss you off, because you've been such an enormous asshole about it.

Anyone else? Move or wait for the issue to actually be released? -Derik 08:35, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm more interested in that green Unicronian-looking crustacean. Is that who I think it is? No, not that guy, the other one. --FFN 10:05, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

That does seem conclusive as to who he will be, but I'm kinda with Derik here that the dickishness that's raised its head in this thread makes me want to be hardassed and not move anything till the actual issue hits the stand. (Soon IDW please). On a seperate subject that DOES look to be Shokaract doesn't it, especially given its set up as happening at the end of Cybertron. It'd be neat to see Furman comming back to the Omega Point stuff. I miss the idea of the Chronarchitect and the other gods. -ZacWilliam, not logged in :)

Speaking of Shokaract, I added a new main pic in anticipation (because I couldn't tell what the HELL was going on in the comic panel that was being used), but I think somebody needs to add some actual content to his page. Lazy people like me will like to read up on this guy when the new BW comics are released, but will be too lazy to search for Shokaract's appearances on Google. Lazy, I say. --FFN 13:27, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Oy. The Smeerlap's gonna claim victory over this even though it had already been decided long before she started posting, isn't she? I don't think there's a need to wait until publication, but I also don't feel that strongly about it. Chip 13:19, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

The anonymous poster from this thread is from IRELAND, not the Netherlands. I don't know why everyone keeps saying Netherlands. I think that was a completely different person in another article. --Steve-o 15:03, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

So are you suggesting we use Wacking Day as a pretext to drive the irish out of Springfield? --FFN 15:20, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

WHOIS gives Netherlands for all of the IP addresses that whined about Leo Prime. How do you know he's from Ireland? Interrobang 17:25, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Because I used services that actually look up where the IP address is geographically instead of who owns it, I guess. Try any service that comes up if you google "ip location". 193.120.116.179 and 159.134.162.193 are both Irish, and 85.195.123.26 is apparently an anonymous proxy located in Germany. Also the person in question stated that he was in Ireland, and at one point called himself not-Dutch. --Steve-o 00:19, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I am an idiot, then. I stand corrected. Interrobang 05:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, that definitely looks like Shokaract and the Matrix of Conquest summoning Unicron. Almost seems a way to tie in Beast Wars Neo, at that. Considering how tied to the next rise of Unicron it is. The majority of characters shown are BWNeo Predacons and all.--Rosicrucian 15:36, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Meh. Neo never had Unicron running around in his own body, just his consciousness trying to possess Cybertron.

Wait, actually the manga did hav ehim in his body, I take it back. Heinrad on the whatever-you-call-it group would seem to imply there's at least a little manga influence in the continuity mix here. -Derik 17:43, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Here's something I thought about - do we go by the name used predominantly in the fiction, or the actual trademarked name? Because unless Lio Convoy appears somewhere with 'LIO CONVOY (TM)' (and he doesn't need to in the comics), the name is not trademarked anywhere and technically, as far as Hasbro is concerned, he's still Leo Prime. Yeah, I know, then what about guys like Jazz, I have to draw the line at modified names of common words. --FFN 18:19, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

We're documenting fiction, not trademarks. Many TF's names arent' trademarked at all- and if Hasbro loses a trademark (Silverstreak) it doesn't force us to pretend that's actually the character's name. -Derik 18:26, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I know. We use the name since the name is not available otherwise, or we use a name because the current official name would be ridiculous to use. But if we're documenting fiction, should have this Leo Prime name ever have been used here in the first place? At the time, Classics Leo Prime appeared in zero fiction. --FFN 18:34, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Will the anonymous editor who keeps trying to copy and paste the entire article over to Lio Convoy please just wait for the official page move? Preserving edit histories in a wiki is important.--Rosicrucian 14:54, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Support the correction of the Leo Prime Debacle at Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Leo_Prime 24.127.3.102 01:05, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

We're not Wikipedia.--Rosicrucian 01:08, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I tend to not support whiners out of principle. Interrobang 01:38, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I couldn't even make it all the way through that. Can someone point out a user in that thread who I wouldn't hate, so I can read his/her posts and feel better about this fandom? Chip 02:44, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Sure! I'm at the very bottom making fun of Virginian by requesting he source a piece of unsourecable stupidity he put in the article. -Derik 02:52, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

There was a Classics litho at BotCon? Interrobang 04:02, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. It would be really nice if someone would put a scan online; nothing so big as to devalue the litho itself, but just something for reference. The LOCs are on it? Chip 04:10, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I bought the litho. I could take a picture of it. --ItsWalky 04:15, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I might try to scan it directly to get some of the guys (Mini-Cons) who don't have art otherwise. --ItsWalky 04:29, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

It'd be awesome if you did that, since I've never seen it (or knew about it until yesterday...). Interrobang 22:28, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Silverstreak?

Methinks you copied that a little too literally...--Rosicrucian 02:27, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Heh heh heh heh heh... -02:44, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Black Lio Convoy

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Black Lio Convoy a distinct entity in the cartoon? —Interrobang 21:11, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Japan only?

Is Leo a Japan only thing or is he an all world thing and his name just sounds like Japan's Optimus' name--Autobot Soundwave 00:01, 10 April 2008 (UTC)?

Lio Convoy is from Beast Wars II, which was a Japanese-only continuity. He did not appear in US continuity until the IDW Beast Wars comics.--Rosicrucian^Talk 00:09, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Beast Wars II?--Autobot Soundwave 00:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

This is a Transformers wiki. Look it up! --ItsWalky 01:10, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Or heck, read this article then click on the link in the same article.--Rosicrucian^Talk 01:18, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ahahahahahahahahahaha

Ahahahaahahahahahahahaha. —Interrobang 06:14, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Universe Leo Prime? Cool beans. Man, I work at Wal-Mart, but not in Toys. If I did, I would totally look into this. -- Semysane 06:23, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

God, I hate the name Leo Convoy so much. -Derik 06:46, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't know, an entire convoy of lions would be pretty badass. -- Semysane 06:47, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Hm. Well, last I checked we didn't revert Octane's name when it became Tankor or Banzai-Tron's when it lost its hyphen... So why should Lio Convoy be any different, older debacle aside? --Detour 07:10, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Because there's never been a Lio Convoy toy in the US? Really, though, trying to debate this issue separately from the previous debacle is like trying to discuss Optimus Prime separate from him being an Autobot (Shattered Glass aside). -- Dark T Zeratul 07:17, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Good point. I guess it all comes down to what's more important. Fiction or toys. --Detour 07:20, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

And in fairness- he's Lio Convoy in fiction. We don't call Savage/Noble "beast Changer" just because it's what his toy was sold under.

If Lio Prime starts showing up using that name in some fiction (and I ope he does,) we can renew this debate. :p I mean- you can't really argue that the western name overrides the eastern one if it's not actually overriding, can you? -Derik 07:22, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

That Walmart link no longer works so I have no idea if it was a new Universe Leo Prime toy based on Lio Convoy. I say leave this page alone until the name Leo Prime actually appears in fiction for this specific character. Because at the moment, "Leo Prime" was just a trademark Hasbro used for a redeco character in a toyline that wasn't even set within Beast Wars. Hey, as I recall, everybody else in Classics was a G1 character. Was he officially the exception? --FFN 07:31, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

The link works for me. I guess it doesn't in Australia. Yes, it's a Universe "Leo Prime" listing. Voyager, so it's either a release of the original toy or a redeco of Leobreaker. As for the Legends toy, it makes no sense for him to be anybody but Lio Convoy; he's a "Supreme Commander", and nobody in Classics was a new character, other than the Mini-Cons. Besides that, all Beast Era characters are technically G1 characters. —Interrobang 07:54, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh... oh god Interrobang. Why you gotta hurt me? Granted, he's a Voyager so he's probably just a repaint of Leobreaker just like his Legends scale toy was. Which... damn, I'll probably buy him. But still, this name debate was supposed to be over -- FINISHED! Now it hovers like some vast predatory bird.--Rosicrucian^Talk 22:03, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Hey, did those Beastwars sourcebooks talk about him at all? If so, the name they used would be the official name, no? -- Semysane 22:05, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Beast Wars Sourcebook was written by Furman and Yee at the same time as Ascending, so they use Big Convoy and Lio Convoy. So yes, that is still pretty darn official.

At this point, I'm tempted to say that Leo Prime is a different character and do up a page for him. It's how we'd usually do this, no?--Rosicrucian^Talk 22:10, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

If the Leobreaker mold is used, then, yeah, I think it's best to take him as a separate character unless it says something crazy in his bio. If it's a US released version of Lio Convoy... uh... We're in trouble, I guess.--MCRG 22:16, 30 July 2008

I saw pics of universe Leo Prime on Big Bad Toy Store but that's all I know about it. I'm not sure if it is him. Someone write something there.Deceptibot747 18:25, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Robot Masters black...

Should that toy then be moved to Black Lio Convoy? I don't see much point in separating him from the BWII incarnation... kinda like the Coward and Sycophant Starscream clones. --M Sipher 19:03, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Because it's Lio Convoy after absorbing a MacGuffin, not Black Lio Convoy. (Robot Masters; you got my hopes up for a Robot Heroes toy...) —Interrobang 19:15, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh. Nevermind. Yes, it should be on the other page. —Interrobang 19:17, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

So the black RM Lio Convoy was a Blackbody augmentation? (The Decepticon symbol on the toy, and the Decepticon box, made me wonder.) -Derik 20:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

...no. He's an evil clone. --M Sipher 20:09, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh I see- more content has been added since I read this page this morning! This means we can add this toy to the BLC page, right? (Does it have to stay here? This isn't a case of a reassigned toy per-se... they seem to have always intended it to represent a separate character.) -Derik 20:15, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

As long as we're clearing out a backlog of ambiguity... can someoen who reads Japanese tell me if this thing is described as "Lio Convoy in Galvatron's colors," or something else entirely? (I shudder to think of a limited-to-50-pieces toy as its own character- but this one is more "different," than the typical BomBom recolor, so I feel I should check.) -Derik 23:47, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Well I'm not 100% fluent (far, far from it, s'matter of fact) and the pic is tiny and hard to read, but the big text on the upper right pretty blatantly says "Galvatron LioConvoy". --Detour 23:54, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

"Galvatron Color Lio Convoy", actually. From the text, I also read "Matrix [...] Destron (I'm not sure on this, since the first character of "Destron" is blurry)", "Comics", and "Beast Wars II Comics". —Interrobang 00:02, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Aaah, so that's what the "Karaa" is, color. Should've guessed. --Detour 00:27, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

That type's really tiny, but I can make out something about it commemorating manga episode #3 (or maybe #5), in which he was invaded by Angolmois energy. According to the Japanese wiki article, in the manga, Lio Convoy absorbs so much Angolmois energy that it sets him wavering between good and evil. When his Matrix gets damaged by Galvatron, it turns him into a Destron. The wiki article doesn't state if that turned him Galvatron-colored (which would have to have been stated in dialog or captions in a black-and-white comic, I guess).--Apcog 01:52, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Pre-lion alt mode?

What was his alt mode before he was a lion? 88.104.100.254 18:12, April 10, 2012 (UTC)

Unknown. --TX55^TALK 01:08, April 11, 2012 (UTC)